Over at Umarlee.com there is interesting conversation going on about an issue I touched on briefly last summer and that is the trend of African American brothers going to Morroco to "buy" wives.
I don't really care much to discuss the preferences of Black Muslim men. Everyone has preferences. Although, I think in this case it may look worse as well as imply different things about those Black American men who go after Morrocan sisters because they are Black Americans. There is a undeniable historical conditioning that has occur with much, if not all of Black American and it plays an important part in diciphering whether their preferences are genuine or examples of self hatred. That's another topic though.
Umar stated that many Black Muslimaat are bitter over the fact that an increasing amount of black brothers are buying Morrocan sisters. That's where I want to pick up on. There were a lot hostile comments left in the comment section on the blog I did on the case of the brother (may Allah have mercy on him) who may have been killed by his wife (may Allah have mercy on her as well) after he went to Morroco and married a young Morrocan sister. A lot of the comments were infact directed towards our Morrocan sisters. What I want to discuss is it rightly placed?
Granted, I don't get how Muslim parents can let any man; black, Arab or blue, come from a foreign land, flash some bills and then be allowed to marry their virgin daughters. I don't get it. It's shameful and an unIslamic step backwards and away from the honor, dignity and rights that Allah has given the Muslimah. I remember the one time I had attended a wedding party of a brother back in the states after 2 years of saving to get his Morrocan woman into the states. I felt a sense of shame for having come to witness the event. The sister spoke no English and looked like a deer infront of headlights in that sea of unfamiliar faces. She was alone, all alone. Granted this was three years ago and to the best of my knowledge she is still married to the brother, but I have no knowledge of the intimate details of their marriage. Have they bonded? Maybe in some way, afterall, Im sure he is taking his "rights". Though given the fact that her husband doesnt speak her language and isnt like any of the men in her family nor of those she grew up around or had even the chance to be exposed through media, I wonder how in the world she could truly find apart of him to love genuinely? And if their love is more superficial and material, are black American Muslimahs missing out?
I don't know. Different people think differently about things. I sure haven't met any Morrocan sisters married to wealthy black American Muslim men. For the most part, the brothers who I've seen going to Morroco are brothers working 9-5s or less than that, some are selling oils or incense. Is that anything to envy? And if you do as a Muslimah, what does that say about your own level of self value?
I don't think Morrocan women are the solution for black American Muslim men nor do I think they are the problem. Infact, many of the Morrocan sisters become victims just like black American sisters because for the most part, the ones are being "sold" to African American brothers are uneducated and quickly become burdenned with children and have to use government support. If anything, I think more needs to be done to protect our sisters from third world countries so that they are not falling into the hands of the brothers who need not wed in the first place.
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33 comments:
No we are not missing out on anything. Trust me the brothers going to Morocco are not men you want to marry. Where I live its very common and out of many marriages I really only know of one where the brother is decent but struggles financially. All the other brothers are just a mess, physically and mentally abusive, and the Moroccan sisters are so depressed and constantly talk about their husbands behind their back.
I feel sorry for the children, may Allah keep them Muslim and on the straight path.
As Salaamu Alaikum:
You have raised some valid questions. I have a few comments to make inshaAllah:
You said,
“Granted, I don't get how Muslim parents can let any man; black, Arab or blue, come from a foreign land, flash some bills and then be allowed to marry their virgin daughters. I don't get it.”
It is all about desperation. Many of these people are extremely impoverished. They were already looking for “someone” to take their daughters off of their hands to lighten their load responsibility wise. In many cases, the Black men are just what they had been looking for anyway except with the added bonus of possibly more money (or so they think), a chance to go to America and the luxury of telling everyone around them that their daughter(s) are in America. It’s all about upward mobility as I stated on the other blog. Eastern women look for men with the most benefit. Not that American women don’t, but we would be more likely to marry for compatibility because many times we are educated and have our own incomes anyway so we aren’t in need of a man for those things specifically.
Many Eastern women of poor, third world countries don’t have much to hope for EXCEPT marrying “up” so to speak. You don’t find many Gulf women marrying these brothers because their families may already have a good financial standing and are educated so they are not in need of “darkening” their lineage for no good reason. Gulf women are looking for status and upward mobility as well but that RARELY comes in the form of a man with a wide nose and kinky hair with dark skin unless she has been married before and her countrymen will not marry her.
Marrying a brother with all kinds of cultural and societal baggage that they have no clue about is marrying “up” for sisters coming from poor countries. Money talks, as the old saying goes. It’s not hard for many of these brothers to save $1000 or even $500 US dollars to go get themselves a bride. People always make a way to do what it is that they want. However, some brothers just don’t understand the implications that come along with it and most times they may find that they are trapped in those situations of supporting these sisters as well as her entire family on every level. This is what fuels the decisions the men who are responsible for these sisters make.
Arabs from the Gulf come on their “vacations” to marry these poor sisters, consummate, divorce and then leave. This is pure exploitation wa na’uthubillah min taalik. If their fathers will give them to these shady type of men, then why not a Black man? Actually, it is better for them to marry the Black men to a point because at least most of the brothers that go there really want to have a genuine relationship with the women they choose to marry. This is a stark contrast to the Gulf Arabs that sometimes just use and abuse other third world Arab (and sometimes African and Asian) women.
In Morocco, there is a fierce alcohol and drug problem. And we all know that substance abuse and physical abuse usually go hand and hand. Many men there are unemployed and they sit around all day at shishah houses drinking shay instead of getting up to make a living. This is part of the frustration third world men encounter which sometimes causes them to beat their wives, daughters and sisters. It is common place actually. So the first thing smoking with some potential people in these types of situations will jump on rather than live a life of poverty with continuous abuse. To them, it is worth the risk to marry their daughters to strangers in hopes to make better lives for themselves.
"Have the bonded? Maybe in some way, after all, I’m sure he is taking his "rights". Though given the fact that her husband doesn’t speak her language and isn’t like any of the men in her family nor of those she grew up around or had even the chance to be exposed through media, I wonder how in the world she could truly find apart of him to love genuinely? And if their love is more superficial and material, are black American Muslimahs missing out?"
Many men think about compatibility in regards to sexual aspects. You don’t need to speak English to be intimate with your spouse, wash his clothes, clean his house and give birth to his children. No common language needed. But these aspects alone don’t create a strong and lasting relationship. The men are in control of EVERYTHING and really don’t have or want these sisters asking too many questions or over stepping their bounds. That is easy to do if the women don’t speak English and are not familiar with their surroundings. Of course he is getting his “rights”. And she is as well because she is sending every dime she can back to her family to aid in the betterment of their lives. Any good daughter coming from those types of situations would. She is also explaining every single facet of her relationship to her family. They are well acquainted with him, with or without his knowledge, and they begin to learn what they need to do to get what they want. This really isn’t as cut throat as it sounds. What would you do if you grew up on the countryside or in third world city poverty and weren’t able to attend school hence you are illiterate and all you have is your family and your family’s honor and social standing?
The love is based on what these brothers can do for them and their families, at least initially. It is fair to say that many of these Black men and Moroccan women are in love with one another. But many are not and are in marriages of convenience. It sets in for both parties that men are men and women are women no matter what they have or where they are from. It is just that in those marriages the women get more than the men. It is nothing for them to give their virginity to men that are completely foreign to them, even if he isn’t remotely attractive to them, in order to increase the honor and social standing of their families. This is a stark contrast to how Women are in the West. Many of us are raised to do for self and find a husband who will compliment us not be everything to us. Often times, because of how we as western women were raised it causes problems in many of our marriages.
"I sure haven't met any Moroccan sisters married to wealthy black American men."
I have and some Black women were upset because they felt as though they totally got overlooked and those particular brothers went straight to Morocco riding on the coat tale of that trend. And yes, I am talking about brothers who are pulling in six figures or more. But we all have to ask Allahu subhanahu wa ta’ala for what it is that WE want and stop being concerned about what the next sister has. It could turn out that if we knew the whole story, we would probably want no part of being with these brothers anyway.
"For the most the brothers who I've seen going to Morocco are brothers working 9-5s or less than that, some are selling oils or incense. Is that anything to envy? And if you do, what does that say about your own level of self value?"
Of course, brothers in these situations make up 99% of the brothers who go there to get married. And they have worked their fingers to the bone doing triple over time to save every dime to go overseas and marry a sister (even if they currently have a wife who is living in borderline poverty as we know it in the west i.e. welfare ect). Some brothers just go there and go to a maktabah and say they are looking to get married or stop someone on the street and say they are trying to get married. This is how many brothers have found wives aside from having a “hook-up” so this also speaks volumes about the status of the women these men are marrying. Really it turns out to be pretty equal between the men and women in a lot of situations.
Of course, men in these situations are nothing to envy for the women who are secure, educated and self motivated. Some sisters are happy with these types of brothers even though they know the “careers” of these men are not stable and continuous. For me, it’s nothing to envy. I don’t care who Black men marry. Just marry sisters and treat them according to what Allah has prescribed because in neglecting this, it would not matter who you married or how much money you spent you will still be punished by Allah if you were not upholding your obligations.
Western sisters who accept these kinds of brothers are usually used to men like this and their lack of accomplishments doesn’t bother them in the least. This does say something about how these women think of themselves. Why would your goals include being married to a full time hustler or a fake student of knowledge? You can’t hustle forever and there are many implications that surround that type of employment including coming in close contact with kaafir women who many brothers are still tempted by and run-ins with the law enforcement. As I said on the other blog, sisters need to have some self-respect, self-esteem and goals. Don’t wonder why brothers treat sisters the way they sometimes do; you allow it because you settle for less in fear of being alone. In the end many of these sisters end up alone anyway.
"I don't think Moroccan women are the problem. In fact, many of them become the victims just like black American sisters because for the most part the ones are being "sold" to African American brothers are uneducated and quickly become burdened with many children and have to use government support. If anything, I think more needs to be done to protect our sisters from third world countries so that are not falling into the hands of the brothers who need not wed in the first place."
No they aren’t the problem. They are women just like we are women and they have needs just like we do albeit different ones. And we must respect them as our sisters in Islaam no matter what. It is so true that many of them become victims just like many American women do. Sometimes the situation is worse for them because they may be in our countries where they do not speak the language and do not know how to get help out of a bad situation. But on top of that, if they go back home, they will go back disgraced and they can expect that no one will remarry them unless another American brother comes along to marry them. How would we feel if we were them??
how is it unislamic? the man isnt so foriegn after the process he must submit a police report,health test,local moroccan police test,police inquiry of his character,a shahada paper verifying his faith. Black women are jealous and moroccan men are jealous. Imanubillah said:"I sure haven't met any Moroccan sisters married to wealthy black American men...sadeeq morton rahimhulaah was a millionaire. He went for a righteous wife and found one not a gold digga
Also wanted to point out, not just African Americans are marrying sisters from Morrocco, all sorts of American Muslims(some non) are. Its definitely a Mail Order Bride thing
As Salaamu Alaikum:
Anonymous 1:32
You said:
"Imanubillah said:"I sure haven't met any Moroccan sisters married to wealthy black American men."
I didn't say that, I quoted directly from what the owner of this blog, Musleema, wrote in her article. That is what quotations mean. I answered the questions and ideas SHE put forth with my own words. I said I too know millionaire men in those situations. Please re-read for clarity.
Yaa Ukhti you have to be careful what you say when you say it. You really have no idea whom you are speaking to. It is not from Islaam to debase someone and when you say someone is jealous without just right, this is what you are doing. People maybe jealous but let me tell you everyone who has commented on this blog is not a Black Woman. Barakallahu feeki.
Yes, iman, I know that many (not all) of the Morrocan sisters are coming from families where absolute poverty is the norm. This is why I believe more needs to be done to protect these sisters. At any rate, I thank you for your comment and I hope other sisters will read it and not allow the shaytan to divide us even more. The only thing that should anger us is the brothers who are taking these women from there families to a foreign land on promises to give them better and they don't fulfill it.
Anon 1:32, I dont know why you would mention gold diggers. No one has suggested such about the brother's widow from Morroco. Her character, Allahu Alim. I don't know her and can't speak for her standing in this life. That whole situation seems to be a tragedy. May Allah grant them all His mercy and forgiveness.
I hate to have to be the one to say this but AA muslim men like morroccan women and other women from around that area in Africa because they don't complain about much and they will go for almost anything. I know a sister who married a AA brother she was AA too his first wife was from Gambia and they lived in Egypt.The brother brings the AA wife overseas with them it turns out he had no money the sister had to stay with his first wife because he had no money to get her her own place but he demanded his sexual rights everyday(not night because the AA sister had no nights). She bought her own food and paid for her own education until she finally got a Khula and came back to the states. Of course had she known this she wouldn't have went over there in the first place. Then after they got divorced I heard this brother remarried and guess what ethnicity she was...you guessed it.Someone who he can walk all over.Did he walk all over the AA sister of course he did but she just didn't let it go on and on.The first wife from Gambia has kids from him and was taking care of his kids who weren't even hers while he was over here in America getting married(multiple times at that, that AA sister wasn't the only time he married during that one trip alone.Now the first wife was in Egypt alone taking care of his kids and thats how he repays her. Those type of brothers like sisters who will go for anything.Its sad but true.
As salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
These brothers need to fear Allah!
I feel for those morrocan sisters that get duped by these men with promises of a better life in the u.s,only to live close to or worse off than when they were in their home country.It's very sad.
Salaam Alaikum.
Interesting post but this part jumped out at me:
"I don't get how Muslim parents can let any man; black, Arab or blue, come from a foreign land, flash some bills and then be allowed to marry their VIRGIN daughters. I don't get it.” [emphais mine]
Here we are up against this foolish virginity issue again. EVERY woman deserves the love and protection of her family -- virgin or not.
My CW is Moroccan....sigh!
PM, ofcourse you are right. Though a number of the brothers on Umar Lee's blog cited that they wanted a virgin wife which is why they traveled to Morroco to find one. Every woman deserves love and protection from her family but Muslim parents have a greater responsibility over their virgin girl (bikr) simply because she lacks any subjective knowledge about marriage. She needs them to help guide her to find her best match. A woman who has been previously married does not need to that type of direction.
ps. And it's so good to see you 'round my bloghood PM. Been busy preparing for the baby, but may Allah bless you for everything you been through and grant you everything you want and need.
PM: dont be silly about a foreign land and marriage.....the sahabas came from mecca to madina and married the women from madinah...the muhajirs and ansaars married amongst themselves...GO study PM...then blog
Anonymous:
Go read my post again. I didn't say anything about marrying foreign women. In fact, everyone else is discussing that but I questioned why one would only be concerned about their "virgin" daughters.
Go read and study, anonymous. Then maybe you will have the guts to take a name and blog.
What's pm????like PM is a name....Pm let me respond to your BM.....Pm you typed..."I don't get how Muslim parents can let any man; black, Arab or blue, come from a foreign land, flash some bills and then be allowed to marry their VIRGIN daughters. I don't get it.” [emphais mine] I put their is no issue generally in where people travel from...and I gave an example of of the sahabas...so go study...If a person comes from jupiter and is muslim he can marry a muslim woman mars....Stop stickin ghetto in the deen......ghetto gangsta bints hating on arab women....lol...What are you jealous Pm because nobody travelled for you???
First of all, "brother" troll -- I think you have some reading comprehension issues. My point was the issue the sister was making about protecting virgins from marriages that might be suspect. I think any woman -- virgin or not -- deserves the protection of her loved ones if they are concerned that the marriage partner may not be a good one.
I do not live in the US nor am I in the market for a husband so I don't know where all your trash talk about ghteto bints is coming from. I really don't care who marries who. As it is my husband did travel from Kuwait to meet and marry me in Qatar, so I clearly have no issue with that.
You clearly have some issues brother troll, so please take yourself off ANYWHERE you might be able to find a woman who will marry you. I doubt any women reading this thread will regret losing a shot at being your chattel.
PS: PM is short for peacefulmuslimah. What is anonymous short for? Cowardly troll?
Pm.....Dont oppress me with ghetto talk I'm not interested...PM says:"I don't get how Muslim parents can let any man; black, Arab or blue, come from a foreign land, flash some bills and then be allowed to marry their VIRGIN daughters. I don't get it.” [emphais....You are clearly hating the brothers like they're suspect from the start...Stop reflectin on old ghetto stories....ghetto bints are salty ..PM says:Here we are up against this foolish virginity issue again. EVERY woman deserves the love and protection of her family -- virgin or not.....So now you hating on brothers going to marry virgins...the prophet reccomended his companion Jabir to marry virgins...So wanna throw salt...PM???????
Honestly why is anyone debating a troll? Trolls are clearly bitter, among other things.
Anyway, good post. We cannot control the actions of others so we need to accept that and move on.
Pm....Well I see why you you write such nonsense when we see your profile.......your into sooo much haraam....movies and music...That's why this subject is way over your head and your emaan....ghetto bints got to remove the ghetto.....that's why brothers are travelling!!!!!
as salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatuallahi
sidenote: I'm not here to debate I read anonymous saying part of the hadeeth of jabir..and even though he was advised to marry a virgin he didn't here is the rest of the hadeeth.
sahih al bukhari (The Book of Marriage chapter: The marrying of matrons (divorced or widowed ladies)
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: While we were returning from a Ghazwa (holy battle) with Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallam) I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel. A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a speak he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was teh Prophe (Sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam himself. He said, "what makes in such a hurry?" I replied, " Iam newly married." He said, "Didy you marry a virgin or a matron?" I replied, "A matron." He said, why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter ( al-Madinah), the Prophet (sallallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam)said, " Wait so that you may enter al_madinah)at the afternoon so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region
(this is the whole hadeeth)
what anonymous is speaking about is the next hadeeth on the same page where the question was being asked why didn't you.
I hope this is clear
was salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatuallahi wa barakatuhu
oum aaisha you typed:He said, why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you......The arabic says fa haala BIKRIN...tulaa ibuha...the word you translated wrong is bikr..it's translation is virgin....translating young girl is incorrect and vague.....Slow ya roll....
as salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatuallahi wa baarakatuhu
Sister anoyn Jazak Allaahu Khayran I will note that I didn't put the arabic for virgin (bikr)
The point was the whole hadeeth be available that even though the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam asked Jabir radhiyallahu why didn't he marry a young girl (virgin i.e. bikr)Jabir radhiyallahu anhu answered that he choose to marry a matron ( non-virgin) for the reasons he specified in the hadeeth for those of you who would like to read refer to sahih al bakhari - The Book of Marriage chapter: The marrying of matrons (divorced or widowed ladies)which is in arabic (for those who can read it and english
I Love you for all for the sake of Allaah and May Allaah rectify the affairs of the muslims aameen
was salaamu 'alaykum wa rahamtuallahi wa barakaatuhu
1:28 PM
oum aisha your too nice...May Allah bless you...
"ghetto bints got to remove the ghetto.....that's why brothers are travelling!!!!!"
please tell me how the above statement is not ghetto. let me tell you that my north african husband(algerian not moroccan) is missing some american(muslimah) goodness since being gone. if ghetto-ness is a problem there are many respectable muslim women who aren't from morocco.
It was slang(sarcasm and playing)......No doubt there is some good black women in islam.....I think the western mentality is what is the problem....
western mentality? care to elaborate.
i once read an article in an algerian newspaper online. A man was addicted to drugs. After trying to kick his mother out of the house, he shaved her head and cut her scalp in the process because she refused to give him money for drugs. The clerics in Algeria blamed the west for corrupting the youth and causing them to act his way to their parents.
This is complete nonsense. I am a western woman. I grew up catholic in the south and my parents would beat the crap out of me before they ever let me do anything disrespectful to them. I think it is a cop out to blame every thing that happens in the muslim world on the west. Rather than findins solutions to our problems we shift the blame.
So, rather than trying to work with "unruly" women(who by the way crappy men helped to create) we throw them to the side for more "obedient, devout, foreign, exotic" aka "perfect" muslim women. It's really a shame.
Ther is an ongoing series on the evening news about the status of black women in america. They are the least likely group to get married. Let's figure that 14% of the US population is black. Roughtly 50% are men. What percentage are christian vs muslim? What percentage are incarcerated? What percentage too old/unable to get married? Did you know that 60% of all blacks in college are women? Where are women supposed to find these succesful like-minded religious muslim men? The numbers are limited so what happens when many are traveling abroad.
That would even make me a little bitter.
Firstly you have the wrong religion we have no clerics which is clergy in islam......who wants a unruly woman??? A person can marry whoever he wants. It's His private parts and his choice.....Who cares about the status of black women!!!! we are muslims ...not divided in color or anything else....maybe your looking for a nation of islam forum....We have this new afrocentric -crap resurfacing in islam( i'm black and i'm proud and i'm muslim) islam adresses the problems of the muslim...whatever color he or she is. umm said:we throw them to the side for more "obedient, devout, foreign, exotic" aka "perfect" muslim women. It's really a shame..
Yes get the steppin ,home wreckers...noone wants fitan in their house..if a black man is like that then go and get another color another whatever.....walaahee black people are the only ones making this an issue....No arabs, no pakistanians....We dont see them boo-hooing when one of their women marries outside of the race....then take the issue and turn it into a scandal....like umar lee and the rest of scandal makers
anonymous: i suggest you read the original article that inspired this post.
Oh, and by the way i'm a white american muslim. I'm also married to an arab from north africa, and you are completely wrong about arabs and pakistanis not causing a problem when they marry outside of their race/ethnicity because yes they do. I have come in contact with arab women who let me know that us "white women" have taken all their men and their cousins back home have no one to marry.
my point was that men are looking elsewhere because of the idea that things will be perfect when in fact people are people no matter where they are. women in morocco can have the same attitude as women in the US and that is a fact. The chances of your marriage failing are just about the same no matter where your spouse is from.
People often times pass up what can be a good relationship solely because of skin color and that IS SAD!
oh, and by the way. clerics...just the word I used for religious leaders aka shuyookh. it's really all semantics. everyone knows what i'm saying. you've just got to pick apart the small stuff because you have nothing better to say.
Umm says: People often times pass up what can be a good relationship solely because of skin color and that IS SAD! How when the prpohet said a perosn can marry for beauty????(sahih bukhari)These men and women you mentioned arent complain to the extent of the black nationalists on the internet. The comparison is not the same. No voiced claims and forums ,blogs,public lectures etc....if so show me...and even so it has no legitmacy in islam.....disputing who marries who and from where has no islamic legitamacy
salam,
I would like to mention one thing, marriage isnt haram. either y marry black white or yellow. and just to let y know not all Morrocans girls are poor, most of them are very educated and any man will be proud to marry them. They know how to do it all, cook clean take care of their man and they re educated . for the English, thats the easy part, because they are ery good with languages and they speak arabic plus french. So, Im so sorry that y feel like they re stealing your men. its not haram
and by the way, I m a Morrocan woman from a good family married to a Black man and no he isnt pooor he s very educated and smart and he takes good care of me lhmdoullah. so, plz marriage is destiny so whatever GOD wants to grant y it will happen no matter what.
I am planning to go to Morocco to get married to a sister who showed her desperation to get married. I am not going out love( because we never see each other yet- just talking on the phone) but I just felt that Black sisters naturally are not attracted to me here in Canada.
I am very strict in my deen, they might find me not much trendy. Moroccan sisters are not asking anything but righteousness. And that's all I have. Why not travel for them to complete half of my deen?
I am planning to go to Morocco to get married to a sister who showed her desperation to get married. I am not going out love( because we never see each other yet- just talking on the phone) but I just felt that Black sisters naturally are not attracted to me here in Canada.
I am very strict in my deen, they might find me not much trendy. Moroccan sisters are not asking anything but righteousness. And that's all I have. Why not travel for them to complete half of my deen?
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